Hervé Koubi: Dance and Defiance

With their inimitable blend of contemporary movement and the no-holds barred athleticism of hip-hop and the meticulousness of martial arts, Compagnie Hervé Koubi creates a visual language unlike any other. Indeed, the 17-member troupe founded in 2000 by French Algerian choreographer Hervé Koubi and producer Guillaume Gabriel, has critics reaching for superlatives, with the New York Times’ Brian Seibert describing the dancers of “Sol Invictus,” succinctly: “They fly. They spin. They change how you see the amazing.”

Compagnie Hervé Koubi in “Sol Invictus” by Hervé Koubi. Photograph by Steven Pisano

And this terpsichorean brand of amazing makes its Los Angeles debut February 19-21 at the Wallis Annenberg Center for the Performing Arts with their acclaimed 2023 work, “Sol Invictus.” Named after the “invincible sun” deity, the 75-minute piece is a celebration of the human connection. In truth, though, the Calais, France-based company (there are also three other locations—Grasse, Cannes and Brive-la-Gaillarde) has always been about human connection, with Koubi and Gabriel meeting some three decades ago while Gabriel was finishing a PhD in business and Koubi was studying—well—pharmacy!

But both were interested in dance. Koubi, in fact, trained at the Ecole Supérieure de Danse de Cannes Rosella Hightower, and began his career as a performer in works by Jean-Christophe Paré and Emilio Calcago. In addition, he danced at the Centre Chorégraphique National de Nantes with Claude Brumachon and Benjamin Lamarche, at the Centre Chorégraphique National de Caen with Karine Saporta, and in Compagnie Thor in Brussels with Thierry Smits.

Gabriel, who also arranges music and designs costumes for the troupe’s performances, was working in a bank when Koubi suggested he take a few ballet classes. One session led to another and soon he decided to take a year’s leave from his job. It was at this time that Koubi learned of his Algerian roots, with the pair subsequently deciding to travel to that country, where they auditioned dancers for their newly formed project, which would become Compagnie Hervé Koubi.

Koubi’s own choreography, the blending of cultures and urban and contemporary aesthetics, grew from this hybrid of techniques and influences at the crossroads of inner-city dance and ballet. Initially driven by an interest in tradition and the way movement is passed down through generations, the artist has made acclaimed works that include “The Barbarians” (2019), “Boys Don’t Cry” (2018), and “What the Day Was to the Night” (2013). And in 2015, Koubi was awarded the Order of the Chevalier des Arts et des Lettres for his contribution to the arts.

Fjord Review had a chance to catch up with Koubi and Gabriel by Zoom from Santa Barbara where the troupe was embarking on a Southern California tour. Topics ranged from the duo’s trip to Algeria and the genesis of “Sol Invictus,” to Koubi’s choreographic process and the state of contemporary dance today.

Compagnie Hervé Koubi in “Ce que le jour doit a la nuit” by Hervé Koubi. Photograph by Liliana Mora

Let’s begin with you, Hervé. You were 25 when you asked your father, who was nearing the end of his life, about your last name, ‘Koubi,’ and that’s when you learned of your Algerian heritage. How did discovering your ancestry impact your life and work?

Hervé Koubi: This is difficult to answer, precisely because I think I had with my parents these kinds of secrets, and when I met these dancers in Algeria, I realized a lot of things were inside me. And at this moment, there’s only one thing: I allowed myself to express simply; I was not afraid anymore to dare to do some things in my dance.

When I met new dancers in Algeria, it was interesting, because they were self-trained, completely open and available to perform something else in the contemporary field. That kind of dancer didn’t exist in 2009 when I went to Algeria. It was one of the kids who allowed me to do something very singular, something new, which was not ballet, but it was an unexplored space between the two techniques.

Guillaume Gabriel: Freedom was found again. There were no more barriers, everything was possible to explore with no more self-censorship. This search of his roots and heritage let him meet those dancers that allowed him to make a path for them, and they made a path toward us. We met at a special point that we are still developing now.

Hervé: For a long time, I introduced my dancers not like my dancers, but like my found brothers. One of them became my assistant, but he’s more than an assistant, Fayçal Hamlat. He is an accomplice, a very close artistic friend. We’re inseparable.

Guillaume: France is a nice country, but it likes to put people in boxes and to build borders. You’ve been trained in a dance school, so you should do that. You’re born in the suburbs from Algeria, you should do hip-hop. In France they didn’t know where to put Hervé with his contemporary background. Why was he not doing ballet? Why was he working with hip-hop dancers?

Working with Algerian dancers allowed him to take away all these barriers. He created a new box. And it’s not easy to create something in France. Maybe it’s easier in the USA, where things are possible. In France, you belong to where you come from. Don’t try to go where it’s not your place. And we’re still fighting this in France.

Hervé: We tour the most in America. For an artist to perform in America, it’s already a beautiful goal, a beautiful accomplishment. And we are one of the companies who toured the most in America, but we are not the company that gets the most support in France.

We’re grateful, in any case, that you are performing in the States, especially in Los Angeles. Now, if I might ask, what was the genesis of “Sol Invictus,” why the Latin title, and was it conceptual, physical, biographical?

Hervé: Before I started the work, I met the directors of theaters and festivals to look for support and co-productions and they said, “Let me know about your next creation.” I was a little bit worried and was only able to say, ‘It’s about dance,’ that it was my point of view and what it means to be dancing together.

Guillaume: It was also urgent for us to do this piece at this special moment, where the times are getting more and more dark. We’re not hoping for good things, but we only hope for bad things not to happen. “Sol Invictus” was this Roman pagan ritual, a celebration, and the goal of ritual was to hope for life to come again, hope for brighter days. This is what we wanted to put onstage—something full of hope with dance only, because dance can bring people together, regardless of their nationalities, cultures, religions.

Hervé: I keep being amazed that dance has this extraordinary power to bring us together simply. It’s probably because dance as an art is very ephemeral. There’s an extract of an interview of Stanley Kubrick who said, “We are probably only a little spark lost in the middle of the universe, a huge universe,” and I want “Sol Invictus” to be this spark as buoyant as life with the joy of dancing together.

Compagnie Hervé Koubi in “Sol Invictus” by Hervé Koubi. Photograph by Steven Pisano

And part of “Sol Invictus,” is Mikael Karlsson’s terrific score. With electronics by Maxime Bodson, some Steve Reich and traces of Beethoven’s Seventh Symphony, particularly bits from the funeral procession, I’m wondering what comes first for you—the concept, the steps, the music?

Hervé: I love to collaborate. I know at the beginning what I want, but for this creation, I have to confess, I like to be mysterious. The music was already there before the first rehearsal. I have worked with Maxime Bodson, from Belgium, since more than 20 years. And Mikael Karlsson is known because he’s a composer who works a lot with [choreographer] Alexander Eckman.

Your dancers are obviously known for their extreme physicality. They’re acrobatic, as well as grounded, and almost architectural. What about injuries?

Hervé: You won’t believe me, but, sincerely, we almost have no injuries. The statistics in my company is one injury every two years, and it’s never too serious. Even when I have one dancer with one injury, he’s able to keep on. I don’t force him, but he doesn’t stop dancing. I’m very proud of this result, because I take care of my dancers, and it’s probably because one of my former dancers is my assistant, Fayçal Hamlat.

I met him in Algeria, and he understands probably more than me what is best for dancers to avoid injuries, the best way to understand the work. A lot of these dancers now in “Sol Invictus” come from everywhere in the world. For most of them, it’s their first experience onstage with this creation. They are absolutely amazing; they are the best in their techniques. That’s the reason I ask them to come in my company.

Guillaume: Most are self-trained. It’s also in the process that we do every day with the dancers. It’s very important for us on rehearsal day, we secure one hour of training where they can keep on working their own techniques and can still improve. Trust is proposed, and we work on this idea during the whole day until the end of the show.

Hervé says to pay attention to all these little things. That’s why the important thing is to dance together, to pay attention; not, “You train from your side, then you from yours.” I don’t want to make a comparison, but it’s not a circus exercise.

Then there’s the notion of ritual in the movement—circles spirals, communal lifts. Were you thinking about ancient rites, contemporary protest or something else entirely?

Hervé: In the beginning, I was inspired by traditional dance in general. It was easier for me to try to invent a new way to make a ritual. Indeed, I took some inspirations from traditional dances, but most important in this creation, I try to open a symbolic space.

We spoke about freedom to open a space of liberty, to find a new freedom onstage for my dancers. But it seems paradoxical. Without that, we need to have a very clear structure behind the choreography, the spacings. I don’t stop asking my dancers to open new spaces, to play with the borders of the choreography, the borders of the space, the borders of the music. You must pay attention to each other.

You may [also] understand why I decided to give up the count with the music. It’s a beautiful tool, but I prefer not to keep an ear for the music but to keep an eye for the dancers. When we have a large space, I prefer to ask my dancers to keep a tighter space, to force them to pay attention to the others. This way, I hope to find something alive. To celebrate life through the dance, through this ritual. What is dancing together? What is life together?

Guillaume: There is choreographic writing. Everything is set onstage, but if you want a ritual to be true, we have to explore the freedom of the dancers. The writing, even if it’s the basis of the show, it can’t only be that. It has to be how the dancers are on stage, how they work together, how they trust each other; how it’s true and real. You can go to mass without believing in it, but this is what we don’t want.

Are there aspects of the piece that you hope American audiences will perceive differently than European audiences, and what do you want audiences to take away with them?

Hervé: That’s difficult. I put everything in my work and don’t know how to say it. But when the audience comes, I hope they enjoy, they love, they feel an emotion. Probably one of my favorite feedback is when an audience member says, “I would love to dance with you. I was on my chair, and I was dancing in my mind.”

That’s the most beautiful feedback you can give to a choreographer. Also, that life is precious. Without being pretentious, I think art, generally, and dance gathers people together. Five or seven years ago, we had Israelis and Palestinians on stage, all nationalities on stage.

Guillaume: Hervé wants that his work keeps its roots in the actuality, as if dance could be part of a solution. He was afraid [and] was thinking, “Oh, will I get issues to put those two different nationalities on stage?” But two seconds after the meeting, everything was fine and everything was easy and yeah, it was natural.

Finally, what do you think the state of dance is today and how do you see the future of dance in a world shaped by migration, AI, and hybrid forms?

Hervé: Today, in the dance field, we have more and more dances where the goal is to dance together. Everybody does the same move, the same shape, the same costume. I like it, but I question it, also. Probably the reflection of our society in art is good for that. For me, to dance together, it’s not to be the same; it’s about what we can build together.

Victoria Looseleaf

Victoria Looseleaf is an award-winning, Los Angeles-based international arts journalist who covers music and dance festivals around the world. Among the many publications she has contributed to are the Los Angeles Times, the New York Times, Dance Magazine and KCET’s Artbound. In addition, she taught dance history at USC and Santa Monica College. Looseleaf’s novella-in-verse, Isn't It Rich? is available from Amazon, and and her latest book, Russ & Iggy’s Art Alphabet with illustrations by JT Steiny, was recently published by Red Sky Presents. Looseleaf can be reached through X, Facebook, Instagram and Linked In, as well as at her online arts magazine ArtNowLA.

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Hervé Koubi: Dance and Defiance

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