Nueva Carmen

For Ballet Hispánico’s upcoming season at New York City Center from May 29-June 1, the company will present Gustavo Ramírez Sansano's “Carmen.maquia,” a contemporary take on the timeless story at the heart of George Bizet’s unforgettable opera “Carmen.” The tragic tale of Carmen, a fiery gypsy woman, who captivates both Don José, a soldier, and the bullfighter Escamillo with her independent spirit and allure, revolves around universal themes—love, passion, and jealousy—culminating in violence. Wanting to know about the special blend of ingredients that went into this boldly reimagined Carmen, I sat down with Artistic Director and CEO Eduardo Villaro for a discussion about the work. The conversation yielded insight into what makes this production so uniquely vibrant and why it is a relevant work for today and for Ballet Hispánico’s core mission to reimagine how Latine culture is celebrated on the global stage.

Ballet Hispánico in Gustavo Ramírez Sansano's “Carmen.maquia.” Photograph by Paula Lobo

What is the meaning of “maquia” that is part of this work’s title “Carmen.maquia”?

Eduardo Villaro: Maquia is an old Spanish term that comes from tauromaquia, or bullfighting, or the study of bullfighting. So, it's very interesting that Gustavo Ramírez Sansano has used that for Carmen. It's like putting Carmen into the bullfight.

Can you talk about what makes this Carmen unique?

This Carmen is unique in that strips away big, iconic ideas of Spain and what it is to be Spanish. He tears it down to the movement and the characters—with the support of the scenic and costume design. It's a very contemporary, minimalist Carmen. It demands that you focus on the movement, the vocabulary, and what they are telling you. I like to say that his movement becomes the recitative that you might find in an opera telling you the story, helping you through the story. His movement and how he develops the characters through the movement is what's important. So there are no castanets. There are no beautiful, red, polka dot, flouncy, long tailed flamenco dresses. There are no bullfighter hats. All that is stripped away so that we have, more than anything else, a human story. The culture is seen only because it is a story about this woman, Carmen, who is Spanish. But this town could be anywhere. It could be any community. We're not relying on the accessories and trappings of culture. We're bringing out the emotion and movement that make culture.

I was going to ask you about the stripping down to black and white, as in the costumes.

Again, through stripping down the elements—including color—Ramírez Sansano amplifies that sense of tension and struggle in a stark field of black and white. There are also scenery drops that are very Picasso-esque—like a bull and a woman. And there's this very interesting drop toward the middle of the piece that resembles Picasso’s Guernica.

Ballet Hispánico in Gustavo Ramírez Sansano's “Carmen.maquia.” Photograph by Paula Lobo

The movement vocabulary is so contemporary, fresh, and unstylized. And I love the use of humor and gesture. I'm curious about Ramírez Sansano and his influences.

He came from the Spanish School of Victor Ulate, which still trains remarkable dancers. And he was such a beautiful dancer. He came to the States after dancing for a bit in Spain, and he worked with Hubbard Street. At that time, Hubbard Street was doing all the European hits—from Kylián to Nacho Duato to Mats Ek. So, he has that background in his movement language. Even though there are still tendrils to these past influences, I think his choreographic voice is very much his own. He has such a particular movement language.

We met when he was at Hubbard Street, and I was in Chicago, where I had my company, Luna Negra Dance Theater. Ramírez Sansano was interested in choreographing, and I gave him his first commission. So, we go back a while. He did this wonderful work called “Flabbergast,” and then we did more and more. When I left Luna Negra in 2009, he came on as the artistic director. He left that in 2013 and now he combines his work as a freelance choreographer with the direction of Titoyaya Dansa, the company he founded in Spain with Veronica Garcia Moscardo in 2006.

Of course, the Carmen music is rapturous. Is this a version for ballet? Or is this orchestration specific to Ramírez Sansano’s work?

He uses an arrangement for violin and orchestra called the “Carmen Fantasy” by Pablo de Sarasate (1844-1908) based on the themes from Bizet's opera “Carmen.” But he also uses some other pieces by Bizét, which is very interesting. They are not from “Carmen” but added to it. There's a beautiful duet towards the end with Micaëla and Don Jose to stunning music that is not part of “Carmen.” But it shares in the essence of Bizét. And he uses two different versions of the Habanera. So you keep hearing the ba-bum, bum, bum theme. He has really created a Bizét soundscape.

The original Carmen ballet was by Cuban choreographer Alberto Alonso (1917-2007). And he also used the “Carmen Fantasy.” The Fantasy is fantastic! So he created it on the themes from the opera “Carmen.” He took the music that we all know—the Seguidilla, the Habanera, the Gypsy Dance—from the Carmen opera. Seguidilla is a type of music used in flamenco. So is the Habanera. All of these are flamenco terms. Habanera refers to music and dance of Havana (in Cuba). The Habanera has a rhythm that is very Afro Cuban. It's fascinating if we start tracing the etymology. And he played with the Paso Doble too. You can't really see it. But the Paso Doble is a couples’ dance, so it's integrated into his duets. It employs the form of call and response.

Interesting. I was just going to ask you about his partnering. How does he come up with some of these creative partnering relationships and lifts?

Well, again, you have to think about his previous Kylián exposure. I can clearly see in his partnering the legacy of his past mentors—Kylián, in particular. Because from Kylián came Duato, Eks, and all these folks. But Ramírez Sansano adds to it in a unique way. The way he has two people interact is very conversational—which makes it exciting.

Yes, it's like real-time relationship.

Some of the best duets I've ever seen are his. We have one of his other works, which I need to bring back, called “El Beso” that has a duet with two men. It's one of the best male duets I've ever seen, and it is about love. It's so fascinating—it doesn't get into anything sensual or sexual. It’s just a conversation.

Ballet Hispánico in Gustavo Ramírez Sansano's “Carmen.maquia.” Photograph by Paula Lobo

Tell me about this incredible set design that keeps being made and remade and organizing the space in all kinds of amazing ways. What is it made of?

It's made of paper—white accordion paper. It creates different spaces in a minimalist way. It asks the viewer to imagine where they are—whether it's a cantina, in front of a factory, on a mountain. And then Ramírez Sansano adds movement to it and structures his choreography to enhance that imagery. This mainly came out of the reality that we need to tour, and touring is expensive with big sets. With this light-weight material, we travel easily. This whole set goes on the plane with us. It's fantastic.

It also functions like a camera focusing in on aspects of the choreography—like when the dancers dance behind a part of the set that represents a low wall. It hides their lower halves, and you see a choreography for their upper torsos. It’s a very adaptable material.

Luis Crespo is a brilliant set designer. He mainly works for theater, and he understands developing images for theater and theatrical productions. Whereas sometimes you get dance set designers, and their main concern is that the dancers have space. They often look at sets simply as attractive background for the dancers. Crespo really understands both sides of the production—the demands of the narrative as well as the dancers’ need for space.

Why do you feel that the piece is important to the Ballet Hispánico repertoire?

Well, my mission is to constantly challenge the world on what our legacy is as Latinos. And Spain is such a big part of that. But the challenge is also to reclaim our stories and put them under a different light, so you see the culture in a way that defies expectations. So, the notion of what culture is also changes. You can feel the Spanishness when you see this piece. There's no way around it. Yet the trappings are all gone. And I think that's very important. It’s important for us because we come here as Spanish and Latin immigrants, but we don't walk around with toreador hats. We become something else—we're Americans. So it's very important for us to build narratives that remove stereotypes but also help us lean into what culture can be.

Karen Greenspan

Karen Greenspan is a New York City-based dance journalist and frequent contributor to Natural History Magazine, Dance Tabs, Ballet Review, and Tricycle among other publications. She is also the author of Footfalls from the Land of Happiness: A Journey into the Dances of Bhutan, published in 2019.

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Nueva Carmen

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Karen Greenspan

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