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Leading the Pack

Things seem to be clicking in place for Mamela Nyamza. Her latest work “The Herd/Less” is touring the world while her recognition as a choreographer with a distinction for the subversive and political has earned her a Silver Lion for dance at the Venice Biennale. Her latest work has become especially pressing in the current climate in South Africa, a country currently in the midst of what many locals are referring to as a femicide, with high rates of violence and domestic abuse affecting South African women. Mamela, phoning in on her way to rehearsals, is full of energy in our early morning call despite the weight of the work. She talks to me about politics, violence, money, and flowers. 

Mamela Nyamza's “The Herd/Less.” Photograph by Kim Stevens

Tell us about “The Herd/Less.”

I’m playing with the dual meaning of the word “herd,” a group of animals. Talking about any leader as the head of the “herd,” people who lead other people—when we have no authority. We can be led by criminals, or led by people who are doing unlawful things, and that can leave us wandering around not knowing who to follow. Sometimes we go solo, sometimes we go to the groups to feel safe because when you’re alone you start to feel vulnerable. 

There's also the situation of South Africa right now with this government of national unity involving various parties coming together. Right now we don't really know what party to follow or who is leading us, there’s a lot of people trying to outdo each other politically so it's kind of a mess. We’re actually herdless as a society. But we see this dynamic in protest too. We protest even in our everyday lives, it's the human condition. I also am looking at this idea of the aftermath. As South Africans we are a very expressive people. We make noise! So in this work we hear the noise, whether it's the cans we use on stage, people talking in exclamations—Hey! Yoh! Ooh!—so all of those come into the work exploring how we react to shock. How we deal with the aftermath. 

 

South Africa is currently going through a crisis with violence against women, does that play out in the work?

It is playing out with current events here in South Africa, with the rise in gender-based violence, this genocide against women, as citizens we want justice. Instead the government tells us to “be vigilant,” but how can we be vigilant our whole lives? Us walking on those cans feels like we are chained, that we aren’t free. We walk slowly together on them, it looks quite beautiful, but inside those cans are deep wounds. It’s a can of worms. 

This all ties to “The Herd/Less. In South Africa right now there's no justice, women are told not to walk at night or walk in groups. Making the work felt a bit like prophetising something because that is what is happening right now. Even globally. It feels like the whole world is at war—some are walking freely and some are deeply affected inside by what goes on. It’s something that has been here since Apartheid. While there is crime everywhere in the world, here I wonder if this is because we don’t have “safe spaces”? Maybe it's because the government doesn’t take care of those living in forgotten communities?

 

Is it hard to deal with that rage in the studio? Is it cathartic?

I dont show violence in the work, I prefer to be subtle about it and use symbolism. I look at our history, where we’ve come from and where we are today—the long walk to freedom. But there isn’t total freedom when I can’t walk at night. I think it's getting worse. All these different forms of violence from different times come together, we still fight it but there’s different violence now, different ways of being killed. It’s sad. 

You feel as an artist that you don’t want to go there, but as a South African it’s hard not to reflect or relate to what I’m seeing. I don't want to say that as an artist I have all the answers and say I can heal, but I’m asking questions and talking about what is happening in front of us. As South Africans we need to project what is happening around us. I’m not talking about daisies and flowers, I’m talking about weapons and spears. I do want to talk about the beautiful things. Flowers and rivers. [laughs]

Mamela Nyamza. Photograph by Esa Alexander

Mamela Nyamza. Photograph by Esa Alexander

Do you consider yourself an optimist? Will the next work have flowers?

I hope! But if I do that work I would have to go back to my happy times, our happy times. So that would be me going back in history, living in the community in the eighties. Going back, missing it, wishing. Maybe that will work in the future. Going forward and pretending things are great would be lying, I would need to go back. I think in being political there is a historical aspect too, but this would be remembering how nice things used to be! 

 

Though universal, the work is undoubtedly steeped in South African culture. What kinds of things do you think an international audience will take from it? 

I think, since we’ll be performing in London, the English will pick up a lot because we are very linked in our history. But there’s a lot of things that can be picked up in any context even if it comes from my South African point of view. An audience member will of course have their own interpretation. They may understand symbols of a spear or a gun. There is a use of colours that is more explicitly South African that might not be understood by everyone, but even the younger South Africans may not pick up on that.

There is one woman in the work who represents the culture of colonialism without being explicitly colonial. But someone else might see the colonial woman as just representing wealth. Though it is from a South African context originally, people will take interpretations their own way. Because of that it might even cause some discourse. 

 

Discourse can be good.

It is! But it can also be confusing. My work can be a bit of a puzzle!

Mamela Nyamza's “The Herd/Less.” Photograph by Kim Stevens

Mamela Nyamza's “The Herd/Less.” Photograph by Kim Stevens

You’ve trained in and explored a number of dance techniques. Do you pull from these often as you make? 

Of course, I came from a community where we did a lot of ceremonial dances at home—everyone grows up dancing in South Africa. I was introduced to ballet and from that I was introduced to loads of other styles of dance and started to merge them. But I want to challenge the norm of moving. Are we moving because that is how we are taught? To be seen as contemporary do I have to move in a way that fits contemporary dance? I want to challenge the convention, to ask if the movements the dancers do is dance. 

The dancers are all trained, I was too, but I’m interested in making something new. Is this new form also dance? There’s inspiration from urban styles found across communities in South Africa, it's very raw, that's a big source of material because I'm talking about my country. How can I represent my country only with ballet? That brings in its own hierarchy, whereas urban movements from the communities where this stuff is actually happening is more relevant. 

 

You were recently awarded a Silver Lion at the Venice Biennale. How does it feel to get that recognition?

 

I think I feel the same, that I haven’t changed. I’m still doing the work the way I always have. I do now feel more like my voice matters, wow, as a Black woman from South Africa you know? They see me, I matter, people recognise it. That’s a great thing but it doesn’t change who I am as an artist because I will continue working the way that I have been.

Maybe things will change more at home, generally the kind of work that I do is quite ignored by my country—perhaps because I’m not trying to follow norms. You get a little sidelined in doing that, it's quite hard for me to get platforms at home—though the places that are interested in my work like in Durban or Johannesburg do really support me. Maybe winning the silver lion has increased a bit of interest. But my soul is just happy to know that my voice matters in the world.

It’s a lesson to keep doing what you’re doing. Maybe this was the right year for this recognition as well because I’m doing the big 50! 

 

What are you hoping might be in the future? 

I never know until I know. I never thought “okay I’ve won an award, things are gonna get easy!” Things are never easy! I hope that I’ll get more funding from home, that's a challenge I’m facing a lot here. Though being declined may come from speaking out when things don’t happen. I wish for more funding, to be invited! Growing the repertoire of the company requires funding, making new works. Maybe that new work will go back in time. That beautiful work where I say “it used to be and I used to be and it was.” [laughs] Even in my work now there is duality, darkness and light, so maybe when I try to make that beautiful work I will still find the darkness. [smiles]

 

“The Herd/Less” runs in Sadler’s Wells East as part of Dance Umbrella from 8th-10th October. More information can be found here: https://www.sadlerswells.com/whats-on/dance-umbrella-the-herd-less/ 

Eoin Fenton


Eoin (they/he) is a dance maker and writer based between Cork (Rep. of Ireland) and London (UK). They graduated with a BA in Choreography from Middlesex University and are currently undertaking an MFA at Trinity Laban. Eoin has written for the Place, A Young(ish) Perspective, Fjord Review, and dance art journal. 

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